HSN Episode #27: Why You Need Community with Dr. Sheneka Horne
INTRO: Welcome to Healthy Sexy Nutrition with me, Michelle Fox, culinary nutritionist, health coach, and your host for this podcast. I teach busy professionals how to get more nutrition in their bodies and how to have more fun in their home kitchens. If you struggle with consistency or sometimes forget to make your needs a priority or you avoid planning your meals, you, my friend, are in the right place.
Join me each week for inspiration to increase your energy, discover new recipes, manage your hormonal woes, and so much more. You are a busy professional, but that does not mean your nutrition should suffer. You deserve to live in a body and have a life that you love.
So let's dig in.
MICHELLE FOX: I have one of my amazing friends with me today, and I am so thrilled that I get to introduce Dr. Sheneka Horne to my community. I will start by just sharing a little bit about her bio, because if you leave it to me, I will just gush about her kindness, about her beauty, about how much I love her, so. I'm sure as the episode goes, we'll hear more of that.
But for now, let me let you know, Dr. Sheneka Horne is the founder of the Black Doctor. She is a Caribbean American global health pediatrician and physician coach. She is from Brooklyn, New York, and I actually have a story to share about that. I'll get to that in a moment. But after years of feeling disempowered, She changed the way she thought about work. Oh my goodness. So proud of this woman. She now practices healthy boundaries, allowing for less work stress and more balance. With the Black Doctor, Sheneka focuses her attention on black doctors. In practice. The pandemic depleted so many providers, and for black providers there were always additional burdens. The Black Doctor community aims to form a powerful network of doctors who learn, share, and grow together.
Sheneka is a natural connector, as you can see. I'm saying that with a smile. That's how we are together, and she enjoys connecting people with needed resources through coaching, she helps challenge the mindset and habits that keeps black doctors in unfulfilling roles and encourages them to take steps towards sustainable careers. So Dr. Sheneka welcome.
DR. SHENEKA HORNE: Thank you so much, Michelle, for having me. I'm so excited.
MICHELLE: Yay. My pleasure. If anybody wants a taste of our relationship, go back to around early September and you'll see actually one of my favorite photos of the two of us is, we're in Bali. We're in front of this gorgeous waterfall. I've got this sprawling dress and I'm holding it up, trying to look all cute, and all of a sudden you see Dr. Sheneka's head pop up. She's like….
DR. SHENEKA: I was trying to hide my bathing suit to be fair and didn't wanna stand next to you in this beautiful dress while also not being fully dressed. So I was using your dress as a shield,
MICHELLE: Thanks. Great. Really well that's, that's one of my favorite photos of us together. And when I was saying at the top of reading your bio, a little story, when I saw the Brooklyn, New York, I knew that you lived in New York. I didn't know it was Brooklyn. And so I don't know that I shared with you. But my super close friends and family know that there is this alter ego that we call Brooklyn, Michelle, and she comes out if anybody else with anybody I love. So thank goodness she doesn't have to come out too often, but oh boy, nobody wants to meet Brooklyn Michelle just saying.
DR. SHENEKA: I mean, to be fair, I feel like that is a very New York attitude to be like very protective of our people.
MICHELLE: You know, there's, there's safety in that. See, it's all good. I, I love the Brooklyn love. Yes. And amen. So before we jump into our juicy questions, I have some fun questions for you. Are you willing to?
DR. SHENEKA: Yes. Let's play.
MICHELLE: All right, first things first. When I say sweet, salty, or savory, which one lands for you?
DR. SHENEKA: Oh, hardcore. Sweet. I have such a sweet tooth.
MICHELLE: I had a feeling that was you. Got it.
Inbox zero or inbox 10,000.
DR. SHENEKA: Zero. Oh, okay. That number gives me palpitations to see it on the screen.
MICHELLE: Got it. Favorite movie of all time?
DR. SHENEKA: Ooh. Um, I don't know if it's the favorite, but one of my definite top fives is Love Actually, which is such a good movie. It just makes you feel so good and just like clean joy.
MICHELLE: I love that clean joy. Yes. That's a tradition that my husband, Steve, and I have. Every Christmas we have to watch Love Actually, cuz you're right, it just touches on all levels. The heart, the head, the Yes. The holiday spirit. Oh, I love that. Love, love that. Okay. And then last of our rapid fire is, would you be willing to share one of your favorite childhood memories in the kitchen?
DR. SHENEKA: Ooh, favorite childhood memories in the kitchen. When I was maybe, ooh, I say elementary school like nine-ish, I was like obsessed with dolphins. I mean, like what nine year old girl is not right? Like I had stickers and whatever. Part of, I was doing a project where I had to present all dolphins in school, so I decided I was gonna make a bread that was in the shape of a dolphin.
MICHELLE: No.
DR. SHENEKA: Yeah. Mind you, I'm not a baker and my mom doesn't bake, so we decided we're gonna make this bread from a scratch and we're going to like, you know, just commit to the whole thing. Like I think the shape came out. It was hard as a rock.
You know, to this day I still say like, I don't bake, and I mean, it actually got better in the pandemic. I actually think I taught myself how to bake in the pandemic, but I just remember from from age nine being like, I am not a baker because this is terrible. Like no one could eat it. I had an entire dolphin that you could like bang on the couch or it was not even crumble.
MICHELLE: It was. That is amazing though, like you get an A+ for creativity. Like who even thinks to make animal figures out of bread? Like I that, that is a nine year old sign. I remain impressed by you, Dr. Sheneka.
DR. SHENEKA: And also I learned that my mom does know how to bake bread and was definitely breaking bread throughout the entire pandemic. And I was like, who is this woman? And how come you didn't save my nine year old self and my dolphin bread?
MICHELLE: Well, and and the most important question is, do you all live close enough that she was sharing this yumminess with you during the pandemic?
Dr. SHENEKA: Yes, I had come home for like a month during the pandemic, and I was discovering that she had this talent hidden. It's like, who is this woman? Who is this?
MICHELLE: Well, now let's jump in about your community. One thing I, I mean, one of the many things I admire about you is that you are a community builder like myself, but your community in specific and in particular, will you tell us a little bit more about the Black Doctor community?
DR. SHENEKA: Yes. So pretty much my community is based on serving black physicians. I think that it was one of my aims coming out of the pandemic and coming out of my training. I was noticing that a lot of black doctors have problems that are a little bit unique to the outside medical community. I mean, medicine's hard in totality, right? The training is hard. The job is hard, like everything about it is difficult. And then on top of that, I felt like a lot of us were first generation doctors. There are not doctors in our family. Some, a lot of us are first generation college students, and so it was a lot of people figuring out how to do everything by themselves, for themselves, and just this idea of if we formed a supportive community. As we figure things out, we can help each other and lean on each other and also not feel so isolated because we are kind of far and few between. Um, but just supporting each other in a way that's like allowing us to propel ourselves forward and to maintain a sustainable career. So that's the community, that's the idea of the community.
MICHELLE: And you also mentor younger doctors coming into the field, don't you?
DR. SHENEKA: Yes. I have med students, usually close to graduation who are looking to apply for their residency program. So residency is the training you do after medical school that's specific to your specialty. So everyone does the same classes for four years of med school, but if you wanna be a pediatrician, it's three years of pediatric residency. If you wanna be a surgeon, it's five years of general surgery, like, so every specialty has its training program. So in order to, join these training programs, you have to apply and like everyone applies at the same time. Everyone finds out at the same time. If they've gotten a job starting in July, it's a lot of pressure and they have to do an interview trail. Right now it's interview season for the medical students. So yeah, I mentor mostly black women of color Latin. Black, whatever. , and as they go through this interview process, figuring out what they want, how to interview well, how to prepare their application, and so far I have an a hundred percent match rate. I'm just saying everybody matches into a job that comes through my mentorship. So I mean, I'll of them, it's not me, it's them. They're obviously putting in the work. They're all hardworking women, so I'm very. Them, but I, their success is my success, so I claim it.
MICHELLE: As you should. So now you also mentor younger professionals coming into, oh no, let's try that again. Shake it up. Shake it off. I was gonna say into the biz, but the medical profession, I know it's a biz, but you guys don't call it that
DR. SHENEKA: It's definitely become a biz. That’s for sure.
MICHELLE: So you also mentor younger professionals coming into your industry, don't you?
DR. SHENEKA: Yes, I do. I mentor predominantly women of color, whether that's black or Latin, um, that are going through, uh, applications to their residency program. So residency is the training that you do after medical school.
So medical school, everyone learns the same curriculum for four years. And then depending on what kind of doctor you wanna be, If you wanna be pediatrician, you go for a three year pediatric residency. If you wanna be a general surgeon, it's a five year general surgery. Uh, residency, OB G Y N is a four year residency, so every specialty has a different length program, but everyone applies at the same time. They all go on a mass interview trail. So a program will host multiple people on a day and then they all find out the same day, sometime in March. So right now, interview season. So I help them with their application. I help them practice for interviews and just help them what programs they're going to put in for. And so far a hundred percent success, right on everyone who has come and mentored with me, which has been amazing. Obviously they're amazing people, so it's really their hard work. Not really mine, but I'm gonna claim their success either way.
MICHELLE: As you should. No humility needed here. We know proud of Dr. Sheneka Horne. Oh, that is amazing. And did you have strong mentorship when you came into the program?
DR. SHENEKA: Uh, no. Um, okay. I did not interest, so that was interesting. One of the things that as I reach out to other docs, or that I'm in like various social media, Facebook groups, uh, with is that everyone's always requesting mentorship. So for me, I thought that that was super important for me to do. Just as an aside. So, there are a few pop-up mentorship programs now. Things that, you know, things are popping up, people are trying to connect. So I think it's hopeful.
MICHELLE: Hopeful for the future. Future. No, I love that you have a heart to serve and I imagine you're probably, it probably makes you even a better teacher and or leader knowing that you didn't get the things that you can offer now. So yeah, that's such a gift. Nice. And I wanna circle back to, uh, something you mentioned earlier about saying that the pandemic was a bit harder on black folks in particular, or black doctors in particular. How, how did you see that?
Dr. Sheneka: Yeah, I think. I think the thing with, uh, whenever we discuss issues with block doctors, it's two things, right? It's the doctors themselves and then it's also the patient population.
MICHELLE: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Sheneka: So, you know, black people had a much higher mortality rate from Covid. So, you know, there was just a lot of factors that contributed to more deaths within black communities. And so seeing that as, Person as a black woman, you know, wanting to, positively impact my community and not have so many members of my community affected by this terrible pandemic was one aspect.
So that already takes like a toll on you. That's like already a trauma that you've internalized, right? And then I think, you know, there. The issue of just being a doctor in medicine and being a black person and, and it being isolating, right? And it, you being maybe the only person in the room or not being able to necessarily connect. And then the pandemic was isolating. So it's like even if you had small opportunities to connect and share some, you know, moment with another doctor, another black nurse or something that was like significant for you, um, it was really hard to do that in a pandemic. So I think it's like added isolation on top of the baseline isolation doctors feel because they're alone a lot of the time in their profession.
MICHELLE: No, that makes so much sense. Oh yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Have an uncle who is an eye surgeon, or was he's, he's retired now, but he would often tell us stories just about exactly that, how isolated he felt, how he was the only black person, you know, in college going down that route, much less in his residency.
Then of course, the numbers get even smaller when you get to his level, so, Yeah, this, this makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So I, oh, go ahead. Yeah,
DR. SHENEKA: Yeah. No, I, I, I mean, I think it just adds to the point of, I was saying before about a lot of people being first generation in medicine and first generation college students, so we don't have the historical knowledge. So we do spend a lot of time alone figuring out things. It's like struggle, team of one. So. Yeah. So I think, you know, that's one of. Like medicine is a very. classist career, like you need to have a lot of money to afford medical school. All of our exams are over a thousand dollars and there's a minimum wait, wait, wait.
MICHELLE: To take an exam, you have to pay a thousand or over a thousand dollars.
DR. SHENEKA: Yeah. So in medical school you have to take three step exams, step one, step two, and step three. And actually step two has two components. One requires travel because they only test in five cities across the country. Yeah. So it was, and each of the, the, the test fees were like, Hmm, 1400 to like pediatric board exam is $2,600. Right? So I had no idea. Right? So as a student who's making $0 and probably already has college debt, and now medical school debt is now trying to pay for exams, I know people that didn't proceed because of financial costs, right? So I just think about like, those are some of the additional burdens that we, we talk about when we talk about our community within the medicine community, right? We don't have that financial leverage or the background to know where to get the financial leverage all the time.
MICHELLE: Oh, that breaks my heart to go through school that many years, put in that much blood, sweat, tears, then to get to the very end and have finances be the thing that stops you right.
DR. SHENEKA: To be the roadblock.
MICHELLE: Yeah. Hard. Ooh. All right. Well, I would of course love to circle this conversation back to nutrition. I spoke with, uh, Dr. TJ, Dr. Shell Jenkins last year on a podcast episode, and we were discussing celiac disease, and it was a pleasant surprise to me that he, he's like, yeah, of course we talk about celiac disease in medical school. Yes. And I was just shocked because 20 years ago when I was diagnosed with celiac disease, it was very rare and a lot of doctors hadn't heard of it. And they told me, you know, some of my symptoms were in my head. I mean, that was the one element, but then also the real life or. Life element was going to restaurants and chefs would be like, gluten gluten, what, what's, what's that? Right. So now I would love to ask you, like in your schooling, how much did nutrition come in and how much do you lean into nutrition being related to different health effects that you see in your clients or your patients?
DR. SHENEKA: Yeah. Um, nutrition is so important, and again, I'm gonna tie it into two populations, right? I'm. I think we had one class in medical school on nutrition, if I remember correctly, which is like, oh wow. Nothing. We learn like nothing. Um, , you know, your food groups, you know how it breaks down. You learn a lot of that in like college nutrition or I think I had one in my grad school program. Um, but yeah, it's just not something that is talked about heavily other than like, you need to eat vegetables, you need to eat fruit. And also telling your patients to do that and of. So we do a thing in, in medicine, some people do motivational interviewing where you ask someone like, okay, what do you think you need to get healthy? Like, what are, what's feasible for you? Because if I tell you, eat carrots, you're never going to eat them. Right? Right. Especially if you don't like them, it doesn't resonate with you. You're like, what are you, what is this person talking about? Like, my doctor's always telling me to do this stuff and I'm not doing it. So many people are like that.
MICHELLE: So it's more, it's like that inner, I call it the inner teenager. The inner teenager comes in. Well, I actually, you can't tell me what to do, . Oh, well there you go. Oh, that's right. It's a pediatrician. Yeah. So you see the attitudes all day long.
DR. SHENEKA: Yes. And, and as a pediatrician, you work with all ages, right? Because you have kids and then you have their parents. So everyone has some block on nutrition, right? It's not just the child. And my favorite is parents who are like, oh, but the child drinks so much soda. And, and I'm like, but who's purchasing the soda and who's bringing it home? And what are you drinking in front of the child? Like, you know, there's a lot of like behavioral things that go along with nutrition.
So we were inadequately woefully unprepared to tackle nutrition, although it is a very significant part of health in your. Yes. I think it's one of the things we focus on a lot when we coach patients. So it is definitely like top tier in terms of things that general population needs to know about. I mean, I know a lot of doctors who are like, I would just love to do classes on how to read our nutrition label. Or I would just love to reach out to people and teach them like basic food group things or cuz you just need to know that inform. Absolutely. That's like the patient side of things. And then the physician side of things is that we're so busy and we're like in this whole service over self mindset that we all eat poorly, right? If you ever go to a hospital, That is like the, the worst place to try to lose weight.
MICHELLE: I've heard the worst cause. Cause in your break room, that's when you have like the muffins and the cookies Yes. And the candy, right?
DR. SHENEKA: Yeah. So the cafeteria, our, my like our hospital cafeteria was like chicken fingers and french fries and burgers and sandwiches and yes, they had a salad station, but like okay they had every type of, they had all the sodas like, you know, and you're like trying to rush through stuff and forget about breakfast. It was like pancakes, eggs, bacon, sausage. It was like ihop.
MICHELLE: Oh, like. That breaks my heart. Oh my goodness.
Dr. Sheneka Horne: It was really hard to, and the vegetables are like the soggy, overcooked kind. It's like they didn't even do a good. When they've had vegetables.
MICHELLE: Oh.
DR. SHENEKA: Yeah. And then your patients, thank you in baked goods. So they bring in cake and muffins and bagels because you're taking care of their family member and you're on a unit and maybe you don't have time to run down for lunch. Right? Because time is of the essence all the time in medicine. And feeding yourself is usually on the bottom of the totem pole. Oh, so. Yes. Uh, nutrition.
MICHELLE: So it's a struggle.
DR. SHENEKA: Yeah.
MICHELLE: So that, that would answer my question about why doctors make the worst patients. Cause it sounds like you all just don't have time. Like you said, you're putting people in service above your own bodies, which of course, just breaks my heart cuz it, it doesn't have to be that way.
DR. SHENEKA: Absolutely. Ah, but it's literally how we're. It's literally the training. So you spend those residency programs I talked about. You are literally on call for 24 hours. You're working every single day of the week. You don't have weekends off. So while you're working, it's very intensive job. It's not like the kind of job where you can go in and relax a little bit and. Take time. It's like people are often missing lunch, people are often missing dinner, so yeah, nutrition falls to the wayside, unfortunately.
MICHELLE: Well, I love that you, my friend, have had the courage to say, I'm taking a break. I'm gonna step away and figure out exactly. What I want my future to look like. Will you tell us a little bit more about what you got cooking?
DR. SHENEKA: Yeah. Um, well, as you can tell from my previous description, that lifestyle is not sustainable. So it's only so long before you can go without sleep and good food and. Any kind of balance. So, for me, you know, I always say like, I experienced burnout in medicine where, you know, I, I did not enjoy going to work and covering units for all these hours. Right. And it wasn't that I didn't enjoy my patients, I loved my patient interaction. I love babies. I love kids. Like they're just so fascinating at all the stages. Obviously I'm biased.
MICHELLE: Um, so I was gonna say, do you wanna borrow my teenagers for a little bit? I'm happy to send them to Brooklyn for a while.
DR. SHENEKA: Send them over and done. Um, yeah. That was not sustainable. So I, you know, was trying to figure out how to kind of reclaim my life, how to put myself first in a system that doesn't put me first ever, right? So reevaluating what my value system is, what's gonna keep me healthy for longer? Um, how can I talk to patients about nutrition and good sleeping habits? And I don't have those things. And you can tell cuz I just. Feel run down. I'm sure I look it right. so yeah, so part of starting the Black Doctor Beyond the community was figuring out how do I a step away a little bit from clinical responsibilities cuz people are in clinical responsibilities.
We have a lot of student loans, like I mentioned. We need to be there, we need to work the hours, but what can I do that allows me to step back? I still do clinical things, but also supports my community in another way, and also is really healthy for me because I can regulate my sleep. I can spend time cooking, I can, you know, just take care of myself a little bit better and also show others that that's possible.
So that's really the formulation behind the Black Doctor, right? It's like you can be healthy, you can stand up for yourself, you can advocate for yourself. And in so doing, you're gonna be better for your patient population. It's not just about you, right? Even if you can't convince yourself that you are worth the self-care, like other people are also watching you, your team is watching you, your nursing staff is watching you, your patients are watching you. How do you shift and be better for. , have to look at the whole person. I just, you know, I think we understand now more than ever how important.
Everything plays in right? Like not just our physical body, but like our mind and our mindset and how that affects our health. And then if the pandemic taught you, one thing is that the community's health also affects you, right? The world's health affects you. It's not just you in isolation. It's everything and it's everyone. So yeah, I wholeheartedly support public health, community health. And then personal health, all three are ably tied. Like there's just no way to, to separate them. So yeah.
MICHELLE: Amen. Amen. And for our listeners, I just want you to really tune into that because yes, we can create healthier communities one person at a time. That's in our power.
DR. SHENEKA: Absolutely. It's important. To recognize that caring for other people means modeling care also, because it gives them permission to also take care of themselves. So it's, you know, something you're doing for yourself that ends up being something that you are doing for everyone.
MICHELLE: That's like the most perfect description and model for community. The black doctor, community.Yeah. Well, as we wind down, is there anything else you wanna share with me or the community at this point?
DR. SHENEKA: Yeah, I mean, I think like listening to podcasts like this where you decide to prioritize nutrition is so critical. Um, you know, figuring out, making the time. To do this, to cook for yourself, to choose better options, just. You know, I think doctors carry a lot of guilt about things that we don't know, right? So we're like, oh, we should have learned more about, or, oh, it's a shame that this school, this program didn't teach us these things. Right? So it's like there's no shame in continuing to learn and continuing to explore your resources. Like recognize, it's amazing to recognize like, “Hey, I don't know this thing, but I can go and figure it out, and I am figuring it. And I'm learning this and it's better for me and it's better for my family and it's better for the community.”
So just loving that. I mean, these are the things that I coach on cuz obviously physician coach, but those are the, the feelings that we tackle in coaching. It's like forgiving yourself. For not making great choices in the past, but knowing you don't have to continue that. And that's like liberating. Like you can make different choices, you can change.
So I'm in full support of your nutrition program, your podcast, like your videos. I love it all. So yes, please support Michelle. She's doing a great thing. Learn your nutrition. You need to eat well.
MICHELLE: Mic drop. I couldn't imagine it better this show is now officially, Dr. Sheneka approved, I'll say Doctor recommended. I love it. Yeah. Well, thank you my friend. And for my friends who want more, Dr. Sheneka goodness, where can we find you?
DR. SHENEKA: Yeah. I am the most active on Instagram and it's at the black doctor, but black is spelled b l k, so the b l k doctor on Instagram, and then we have a website, obviously theblkdoctor.com, and on that website for the general population, we have directories of black physicians. So if you happen to be looking for a black physician, I have a directory. And I've also linked about six or seven other black physician directories. So if you're looking for a black dermatologist or whatever it is, there are links to all these other sites where you can find a doctor near.
MICHELLE: And is that nationwide? Nationwide access?
DR. SHENEKA: Yeah. It's across the entire country.
MICHELLE: Oh, fabulous. All right. We will be sure to link all of those in the show notes. Thank you for sharing that with me. And I think you have a podcast as well. Tell us about,
DR. SHENEKA: I do have a podcast, it's called The BLK Doctor Collective Podcast, and it's on Spotify and Apple and Google. So, uh, very searchable. , and I'm on my first season, so very exciting. But the episodes are pretty much talking about. All of the challenge we, we talked about the challenges that black docs face, so a lot of it is just talking about my story and the challenges that have come up and the things that I see consistently and. , it really doesn't just apply to black doctors. It kind of applies to, pretty much applies a lot of professionals. Cause I have friends that are lawyers that also listen to it. But anyone that's like in a professional space that understands, um, you know, how you are self-motivating, how you're trying to constantly meet metrics outside of yourself and you know how that feeds into your opinions of yourself and also, Your progress, right? So how to unlearn some of these things, how to dissect what's really happening. Um, as you know, everything becomes more corporate and everything's about profit. Um, so yeah, that's season one. We talk about a lot of things. Burnout, moral injury.
MICHELLE: Yeah, what an amazing resource. I'll be sure to add that to the show notes so we can all come over and follow and subscribe to your podcast as well.
DR. SHENEKA: Yeah, it's like inside Scoop on what it's like being a doctor. What we're thinking, like, what is your doctor thinking? You know, you don't think about them outside of an office. We're like teachers, like no one thinks about us outside of our work setting.
MICHELLE: So that's, I never thought of it that way. You're right. It's like, oh wait, you're, you're human too. Like you're a whole person.
DR. SHENEKA: Like you have things outside of this office. It's like, yeah, it's a lot going on.
MICHELLE: Well, Dr. Sheneka Horne, thank you so much for blessing me and for blessing our community today. I, I appreciate your message and I appreciate the work that you're doing.
DR. SHENEKA: Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here. I'm glad to talk and I'm always happy to have conversations that promote people just feeling better.
MICHELLE: Dr. Sheneka, it's been so wonderful to have you here. Thank you for sharing your gifts with me. Thank you for sharing your gifts with this community, and thank you for all the work you do. Thank you for, and actually, I don't even know if I've shared this with you before, but I just so admire. You for the way you self-advocate, for the way you show up true to who you are. I mean, from the moment I met you, you're like, hi, I'm Sheneka . And it's basically what you see is what you get. And a lot of people can't be that authentic and that real. And so I have always truly appreciated that about you.
DR. SHENEKA: And one thing if not consistent.
MICHELLE: That is a gift to my friend. This has been so fun. Thank you for being here. We'll talk soon. Yes, talk soon.
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Big love from your favorite culinary nutritionist and health coach. And until next week, keep showing up for yourself and know that you and your health matter.
